Honest question, what will you do when inspectors refuse to pass your work because your not authorised?

I'm assuming you intend to not pay fees next year and so won't be "authorised". While this might hurt the PGD board you'll be hurting when your work can't get passed. If you ignore the council and cover up your work against a failed notice it'll be you at risk of getting a NTF or infringement notice addressed to you. Just thought I'd put that out there as the council's have to ensure work they approve is done by authorised persons only. They won't have sympathy for your plight.

Actually TS - there is room in the Act to have the Board consider your application for a licence under certain conditions, and it could be that 1000 or more people decide to write to the Board and request their application be considered.  The Board meet 6 weekly and it is possible that there could be a 2 month period where the Board are considering the 1000 or more applications.  I think if you check - you can still work legally while the application is considered.

On another note - oh that all council inspectors were as vigilant as you. We followed a "plumber" to a job inspected by a council inspector last week.  The inspector had taken the chap's word for it that his "papers were being checked" had inspected the job, found some problems, told him to remedy them and then was back to check they were remedied when we arrived. The job was a mess, the guy had no license, no exemption and was not known to the PGDB.  Two calls - one to the PGDB and one to the Inspector's boss soon sorted the issue out.  Perhaps the 1000 Federation people who don't renew their licenses might get inspected by an inspector like this one?  Who knows? 

I understand what you are saying, and I know you have a job to do - but sometimes peaceful resistance is needed in order to get someone to sit up and take notice.  If you read the Board Annual Report you will see there are 720 odd less license holder than last year - do you think all of these people have retired, died or moved to Australia.  i think not, i would say we already have a substantial number practising without licenses.

The Federation has always preached get legal or get out - this situation is different - people will still be asked to pay their licence fees - perhaps just in to a suspensary account - it's not about the money, it's about a principle. 

On another note, I am pleased some inspectors are asking to see the card.  Makes me think there is hope yet that we can rid the industry of interlopers.

Hi Everyone.

The assumption made by TS is an action that could be taken and some have already taken that action. 

There are many more ways to protest and the Federation is exploring them all to get what is most effective to get our message across.

The Board has statutory requirements it must meet and needs tradespeople so it can.  Without the support of the industry they are nothing but another tax department that collects money to pay to go around in circles without improvement.

The industry does not belong to the Board or the Government it's ours and it will remain that way.
 

Nah Thunder, he would do it for free, just wondering what your plan for "victory on the ground" is TS? ..... but the bigger question is ....what side do you wish that victory for?

Have you read the cover up I have put on here.....do you still think TS that these people are up to the job?? and are people of integrity??

Totally Sucked in.....

Hi Everyone

Bickering amongst ourselves will achieve nothing but division. All of you have good points and the way forward is to find common ground. TS has highlighted some good points which the Federation has already taken into account.

I find his devils advocate role very useful as we can't think of everything all the time. TS can you tell us more about the instant fines you mentioned and what types of offences for example do they cover non registered people doing plumbing?

Stay united guys and feed off each others experience.


Regards


Wal

Whats your advice on the issues industry face TS?

Do nothing,keep going to work and see where we end up in 2022 ?? Thats all ive picked up so far

I personally find that the rate of financial expense placed on practitioners by the board is unsustainable at the current rate. I base this opinion on looking back to say 2002. I will sit down and come up with some figures to back up what I am saying.

Its not hard to see that the financial increases including projected CPD cost, on an individual practitioner over the last ten years are well above inflation rates, pay rates or profit margins havnt moved much either. The average plumber is slowly but surely being shut out of their own industry, their own livelihood and chance to work hard to make their dreams come true.

TS, Would you agree it would be fair to say the industry is becoming more expensive to be involved with every year, yet we seldom see any positive growth in what we take home to our families. Isnt that at the end of the day what spending half your life working is all about? Working hard and being duly rewarded. Now all it is is working even harder and giving more and more away to organisations and boards for every new reason they dream up.

My point is only this,In 2022 it may not even be worth going to work as a plumber, gasfitter, drainlayer and paying all necessary expenses to be able to operate,it may well have become that expensive.

It may well be more realistic in the future to take a slightly lower paid job in a different industry that doesnt require a license to operate/work, or a competence based licensing system that tells you, you are now competent once you have paid them all their extra money if at the end of the day the persons only goal is to build a life and comfortable future for themselves and their family.

This could be a future reality for the 99% of practitioners that dont have a council, or have ratepayers to take care of their costs.To some it just wont be worth the hassle, and of course new comers to this will not want to get involved if they are made aware of the  endless costs involved in becoming qualified before they get underway. This is the one of the many real industry issues we today, face.

apart from ongoing and increasing costs to keep our licences , we have a market that sells all products to anyone in some cases less than we would pay , we have exempt and licenced only peole running their own businesses

TS is correct when he mentions all plumbing and for that matter building work has to carried out by a licenced practitioner , unfortunately there is no controls now in place for work that does not require a building consent to be checked , so we have bathroom and kitchen companies carte blanch doing what they like , and unlicened people have a feild day

It is an offence to knowingly employ a non licenced person to carry out building, plumbing, gasfitting or electrical works. I point this out as the public demand their rights when things go wrong , but do they ensure as a property owner they have played their part in only engaging licenced tradespeople , ignorance I believe is no excuse in law .

what procedures are in  place too ensure the public are protected from non licenced people operating illegally? and what procedures are in place to make sure property owners only engage licenced LBPs
secondly what procedures are in place to protect subsequent property owners from problems if they occur after properties are sold . I bet a dog turd to a oz of gold any insurance companies will run a mile if a problem occurs due to an unlicenced person . ( I know insurance investigators want to know who carried out the works so they can counter claim against them , if they are not licensed the companies have no obligation to pay out )

Taking the above into account , it is not a level playing field for those who play the game and incurr all the costs to maintain there licences , and have public liability cover .

My suggestion and I have discussed this at association meetings , with council inspectors ,and insurance investigators , at one meeting there was BIA people in attendance , they dismissed my suggestion as they thought it was asking too much from the public , my response to them was , the public demand all the protection under the law , but what do they do to help themselves by only engaging LBPs.


To bring back a level playing field , I believe all work that does not require a consent , should be notified by email to the local authority by the homeowner or their agent.
The BIA could put together a standard form that all authorities have on their website that can be accessed at anytime , it would include a brief description of the works and the certifier resonsible for the people engaged to carry the work out , including their licence # and their email address.
In turn the authority acknowledges back to the building owner and the licenced people and includes the form or forms in  the building documents, and records held by the authorities, this is so all parties have the protection that their name has not been wrongly used without their knowledge , and subsequent owners know who to contact should something go wrong, it will I believe make it harder for unlicenced people to operate a win win for everybody, and put responsibilty back to property owners to ensure they also play the game
Obviously the authority will need to charge for this , hopefully a minimal charge, most property owners I have discussed this would be quite willing to pay a small fee for the peace of mind .

Regarding insurance , who would the insurance company approach should a claim occur , the supervisor or the licensed person , I ask this as a lot of licenced only people run their own businesses, I also know exempt persons as well running their own businesses , Presumably the companies know they are working under supervision and would have a different criteria regarding the policy , or does the certifier carry a policy for the licenced person, This is something I would make clear before I agreed to supervise anyone , I wonder why the PGDB dont have a policy on this as they claim to be their to protect the public