Spud, you talk about short sightedness - you naivety amazes me - this IS happening.  Whether it should or not doesn't matter.  And not just in Auckland - try Wellington as well.  Some of the polytechs run a 12 month pre-trade - with one day a week on work experience.  These kids learn enough on this sort of course to be dangerous - they think they know more than they do - and they certainly don't understand the theory behind what they are doing and the ongoing implications.  This is why I say don't teach them too much at pre-trade.  Teach them things that make them useful and attractive to an employer so they will want to offer them an apprenticeship - trade science, measuring, names of tools, how the industry is set up, who SKILLS are, who the PGDB are, terminology used within the industry, the right tools for the right jobs, some first aid, a Site Safe Certificate, calculations and how they apply on the job - that sort of thing. 

Pre trade is exactly that - PRE trade - leave the trade stuff to the apprenticeship otherwise we will end up having shit fights with SKILLS over double dipping on unit standards and time at block course repeating what they have already learned at pre-trade, and paying for it twice as well.  If you run a good apprenticeship system within your business you will ensure they learn all they need while in your employ.  Pre-trade doesn't train tradespeople, it gets them "apprentice ready". 

These guys run the risk with the regulator, but they don't give a shit about that - and I am sure you know builders who just want the cheapest job done they can and will hire these guys to run out pipework etc as they appear to know what they are doing.  I can tell you there are labour hire firms out there who are touting "tradesmen" who are exemption holders.  I can give you a very clear example of some gas work that was done by a plumbing exemption holder with NO gas training at all, no gas licence, nothing - who was hired out by a very reputable labour hire company to a "we do it all" type company - and this guy installed a Rinnai Infinity - I could detail what was wrong - but read "everything" from the flue to the pipesizing, to the sizeable leak, to the illegal install.  And the homeowner had paid $6500 for the job - not even "cheap" and had no hot water!   So I don't know what happens in your neck of the woods, but it's not short sighted on my part - I've seen the reality of it mate.

Awesome. nice insulation though where are the auditors when you need them?

This is what I mean about "dumbing things down". Lets set the course up to fit the lowest common denominator.
Just because some clown "might" go and try to pipe out a gas water heater after doing a pre-trade course in plumbing, lets not teach the pre-traders anything important or technical or relevant or interesting. In fact lets not even tell them what a trap is or which way a hacksaw blade goes into a hacksaw. Lets put them through a 20 week course at the cost of thousands of dollars to the tax payer and themselves just so they are "apprentice ready". Whatever that means. Lets make the course so dull and boring that they come out the end not knowing what working in the plumbing industry is really all about, and so when they get a job theyre so useless that their bosses will be scratching their heads wondering what the hell they did for 20 weeks.

By the way guys, I haven't heard of any pre-traders doing that kind of thing here in CHCH, so Im not naieve, I just haven't heard of it. It hasn't been brought to my attention. We are pretty busty down here, or haevnt you heard.
Secondly, when I did my pre-trade, I already had a job which I had been at for over a year. All the 20 guys in my class had jobs already. The pre-trade course was seen as a way to immerse yourself in plumbing for 6 months and learn a hell of a lot more theory than you would normally at work. It wasn't a course for high school drop outs to go and do so they could get a benefit, which it seems to have turned into now.
So I think you guys have miss-read what I am saying. I am annoyed at what the pre-trade course has become. It wasn't like that in my day. Its a course to get you ready to enter the trade, whether youre totally green or have been at it for a while already. Its meant to actually give you some plumbing skills so that you can be of immediate benefit to an employer.

This is what I mean about "dumbing things down". Lets set the course up to fit the lowest common denominator.
Just because some clown "might" go and try to pipe out a gas water heater after doing a pre-trade course in plumbing, lets not teach the pre-traders anything important or technical or relevant or interesting. In fact lets not even tell them what a trap is or which way a hacksaw blade goes into a hacksaw. Lets put them through a 20 week course at the cost of thousands of dollars to the tax payer and themselves just so they are "apprentice ready". Whatever that means. Lets make the course so dull and boring that they come out the end not knowing what working in the plumbing industry is really all about, and so when they get a job theyre so useless that their bosses will be scratching their heads wondering what the hell they did for 20 weeks.

By the way guys, I haven't heard of any pre-traders doing that kind of thing here in CHCH, so Im not naieve, I just haven't heard of it. It hasn't been brought to my attention. We are pretty busty down here, or haevnt you heard.
Secondly, when I did my pre-trade, I already had a job which I had been at for over a year. All the 20 guys in my class had jobs already. The pre-trade course was seen as a way to immerse yourself in plumbing for 6 months and learn a hell of a lot more theory than you would normally at work. It wasn't a course for high school drop outs to go and do so they could get a benefit, which it seems to have turned into now.
So I think you guys have miss-read what I am saying. I am annoyed at what the pre-trade course has become. It wasn't like that in my day. Its a course to get you ready to enter the trade, whether youre totally green or have been at it for a while already. Its meant to actually give you some plumbing skills so that you can be of immediate benefit to an employer.

busty = busy

Just to clarify.... I spent a year doing logfire installs and central heating before I did the pre-trade. I hadn't actually started my apprenticeship until I passed the pre-trade. So I went into the course pretty green and not knowing much about plumbing. That course filled me with so much confidence and made me realise how much I enjoyed the trade. that's why Im quite passionate about it, and about how affective it can be if used the right way.

Hi guys.  Spud I think we are all on the same page concerning this kind of stuff but the Federation was set up to keep the board honest instead of letting them run away with any old rule that they can think up to make themselves a small fortune and high incomes for themselves. If the apprenticeships were kept in the original form of years ago, I believe that no `pre trade` would be necessary,cheers