Plumbers NZ is New Zealand's largest online plumbing, gas and drainage resource. Plumbing exam help, plumbing news, directory and free quotes.

Author Topic: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014  (Read 232132 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #645 on: February 25, 2017, 04:47:46 PM »
And the PGDB know this happened but are happy to hide it.......

What do you think will happen next time, it might be you.....

Do you think the system we have now is robust and run with integrity?

Do you think when this badly thought out cert system which has so many holes in goes wrong.....who will they blame? themselves or YOU?

Well they have set a precedent that shows they can pin it on someone innocent and protect the guilty......


What is the best protection for us as an industry and us as a country? Fix this debacle or hide it and hope it don't happen again?


And if it does happen again, do you think they will come clean and protect you or pin it on you? You only have to know the past to read the future.....we need to write our past by doing something today.....


Perhaps people could contact Martin Sawyers and ask him, perhaps lots of you could contact Martin and ask him about it.....why did the person who most if not all evidence points to faced a charge for an explosion, but it disappeared.....and no one has been held accountable for the near fatal explosion.....




.

.



.
You can't choose who you are.....but you are the sum of your choices.......

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #646 on: February 26, 2017, 12:29:27 PM »
Why won't they talk to me directly......apparently I have no voice unless I can afford a lawyer, if I was on the dole or a rapist/murderer I could get legal aid......really?

But because I am a hard working guy who tried to avoid all this by putting public safety before profit, being financially crippled by the PGDB's legal juggernought at a premeditated, prejudiced and biased hearing.....well I got to save for a lawyer.....have a read, sent today......

You guys want to put your business', lives, reputation and faith in these people......good luck with that.....


Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com> 
 

Attachments12:23 PM (0 minutes ago)
 
 


 



to Martin, Wal, Jayson

 
 










Martin,




I have just received your letter dated 21 Feb 2017, today being 26 Feb. Thank you.


 

Please in the future can you communicate with me by the modern form of correspondence that is "email", I find that the "snail" mail is just that, and it is my experience that the PGDB have used this as a delay tactic in the past. It is blatant and quite silly.


 

In response to your statements, see attached, with regards to any correspondence between the PGDB and myself. I feel I should point out a few facts for your information....




 


 

The same law firm I engaged before,


 

1. To try and warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work for 6 years before the explosion. In this instance I did try in person but, just as you are saying, the PGDB would not talk to me directly (perhaps they should have because all this could have been avoided).







AND....




 

2. To fight the premeditated and directed witch-hunt levelled at me and my family by the PGDB.




Well Martin this "highly reputable" law firm cost me (from memory)well in excess of 15k, only to tell me to plead guilty to the 42 charges that even the PGDB found me innocent of...... with the last and final two charges being nothing more than a last grasp by the PGDB to justify spending 220k persecuting me and hold on to their 100% conviction rate, which they openly boasted of.




 

Of Note: the cost of Darnley's investigation was roughly 30k.....(if his % of "costs" recouped are to be believed).










Perhaps if the PGDB had paid a similar amount on both of us, then they would have noticed the evidence that points to Darnley, who faced a charge but had it dissappear. This evidence is still there for those that want to see. Actually most of the damming evidence pointing to Darnley I found going through the PGDB's evidence against me, how does that happen?











 

I have a question and I feel it is a fair question that begs an answer.......








 

Why will you only talk to a lawyer but not to me directly?

Facts are facts, are facts, it matters not who presents them.











 

Please do not insult my integrity by telling me it is for my own good, to ensure that I get a "fair go", this is laughable, and frankly insulting in my experience.


 

Yours with integrity, Paul














3 Attachments

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #647 on: February 26, 2017, 12:32:39 PM »
Here's the 3 attachments.....


Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #648 on: February 26, 2017, 12:54:42 PM »
I was offered "name suppression" before all this happened and told them to place it somewhere dark....

I went public from day one, as I had nothing to hide.

I believe this offer of being rooted behind closed doors was more in their favour than mine.....


I say to the PGDB and any one that talks to the PGDB please let them know......



You answer my case in a public forum, you answer it to the plumbing industry (it most definitely could be you next guys) so lets see what they say about this, what is their take TO YOU......

I think how they respond reflects their attitude to you, the public and their duty/responsibilities.....



Do you guys think the industry and NZ public are served well by.....well carpet sweeper under'ers.....hiders not show'ers......a cover up or transparency....




Has a tarp thrown over a leak ever permanently fixed a roof?.....it only stops the loss of roof integrity for a limited period......and if it goes unaddressed it ALWAYS makes it a much bigger problem for the future......the longer it is left the bigger the problem.....


As an experienced practical person....I ain't no tarp thrower......but what are the PGDB? Is the new cert system we work under a tarp thrown over a leak......or a proper fix.....

This is the roof you all work under......hope you all got umbrellas.....








.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #649 on: February 26, 2017, 01:18:13 PM »
Who ever the PGDB represent whether its the public or the industry.....they need to tackle blatant dodgy dealings, which have happened at a risk to the NZ publics safety.

I am totally aware that the PGDB are no longer responsible for the "non" certification system imposed on us today, I say "non" because I thought the whole point in a cert was to have copies deposited in a register for safe keeping, with carbon copies held in other places to ensure proper management ....other wise they are just pieces of paper....this system is much more open to abuse by all those that want to manipulate it.....powers that be included......

I do believe this new system has moved to a proper law court......this could mean prison..........you still glad you don't need to wait for an inspector to check your work before sign off......empowerment is really total responsibility to you and none for the powers that be......if they could just get us to pay for that too....it would be responsibility/cost free system to keep us in line...........oh wait there that is exactly what they got with deregulation......

But don't forget all those certs that the PGDB do hold, if they go bang........how confident are you of being dealt with in a fair, just and transparent manner.





.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #650 on: February 26, 2017, 01:49:41 PM »
From a press release, in the word of someone who had huge access to this body of documents.....




A former chief executive who used "guerrilla tactics" to "go to war" against his employer has failed in his bid to be reinstated.
Philip Routhan was sacked from his role with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board last year after he took more than 4000 documents from the office that he alleged proved his claim of serious irregularities about gas certification.
But the board said the documents also included personal staff files and said Mr Routhan had been abusive to other employees.
At an Employment Relations Authority hearing last month, Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.
He said he was asked to lie to Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson about safety problems at the request of board chairwoman Hazel Armstrong, a claim she denied.
In his decision, authority member Denis Asher dismissed Mr Routhan's application, stating the board's decision to fire him was one that any fair and reasonable employer would have reached.
"Put simply ... Mr Routhan – the respondent's most senior employee – elected to go to war against his employer," he said.
"There were no proper grounds for him to do so, and his guerrilla tactics in particular were in profound breach of his express obligations to his employer ... his behaviour was bizarre."
The reasons that Mr Routhan gave for taking the documents did not withstand scrutiny and no supporting evidence could be found, Mr Asher said.
His claim that there was a campaign by the board to remove him from his position was not backed by any evidence, he said.
Mr Routhan said he was disappointed in the decision and the authority lacked jurisdiction to consider the public safety issue.
As far as he was aware, nothing had been done to address his concerns about the gas certification failures.
"I would prefer not to be proven right by the loss of innocent lives, or by serious injury to people, or by further damage to property."
He refused to comment directly on the decision because he was considering his options.
Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
Ad Feedback
 
 
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."





Is this the same certificate system that has now been shown to be so wanting......by my case......


I never I thought I would agree with Routhan but.....

"I would prefer not to be proven right by the loss of innocent lives, or by serious injury to people, or by further damage to property."




It is lost on him though (as it usually is by these types)......he was in charge when all this happened......







.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #651 on: February 26, 2017, 02:02:49 PM »
Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.


Now Phil was the CEO when the explosion happened.........

And the statement below of.........

"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."


..........was made during my "investigation"........BUT......I didn't see all the dodgy certs until after my hearing......


Not to mention the 560 certs sold blank with a signature........



Does this give you confidence in those that lead us.....those that pontificate about integrity, honesty and the "ask for the card" campaign?



To ignore history is to resign your self to repeat it......there is a massive lump under the PDGB's office carpet and they are all clambering over it pretending not to see it........


.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #652 on: February 26, 2017, 02:06:19 PM »


 

Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.



And this was before we had a system that any new work doesn't have to be registered anywhere but in the fitters shed...........in a housing shortage of 60,000 new homes............


Am I the only one with a crayon joining these dots???????

.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #653 on: February 26, 2017, 02:41:58 PM »
Lets see............





From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2017 2:37 p.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: Offical information request.

 

Martin,

 

By means of an OIA request please may I get a copy of the file of the investigation that gave way to Ms Armstrong’s statement attributable to her in the Dominion post, see below in blue and bold for the investigation for which I speak, taken from these attachments.

 

Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.

As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.

"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."

The Dominion Post

 

I have included two press releases to give you context and a timeline, I am sure that you would also look to protect the NZ public from those that would put their personal agenda before them, and in this light I assure you I am not being frivolous nor vexatious.

I will post your reply, as I have others on the Plumber’s Forum, as this has over 50,000 views and it is a specifically a plumbers forum, you can be seen as speaking in public to some of the industry, your answer could be seen as a reflection of your attitude to this industry and your wiliness to tackle injustice and safety.

 

I have copied the link for your convenience.

http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10736#msg10736

 

 

 

Yours With Integrity Paul Gee









.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #654 on: February 26, 2017, 04:32:21 PM »
Just so we are clear this cert system mentioned below......well its the one that the PGDB had under their administration.....

You know the one that later had an accuracy disclaimer and in the PGDB's own words they couldn't locate some of the originals.....

The system that the only proof the certificate for the last work at the site of an explosion was received by the PGDB.......

...... was and I quote .......that there was a copy on their register with a "fox-pro" entry date, but apparent from that they never received it...............I kid you not.... 

this cert and many others lacked the gas LEAK test results filled in........yeah that cert system......





.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #655 on: February 27, 2017, 06:46:55 AM »
I just came across this little doosie attributable to Martin sawyers....with a recent court result about a gas leak and I suppose a risk of an explosion.

“Dealing with gas is dangerous. Never install a gas appliance yourself. The law requires installation by a licensed tradesperson and our new campaign ‘sort the pros from the cons’ shows consumers how to choose the right people. It highlights the importance of qualified tradespeople, and the need to eliminate any risk by asking to sight a New Zealand Practising Licence before any work begins,” PGDB Chief Executive Martin Sawyers said.

The verdict reinforces the PDGB message of safety and warning.

“A qualified tradesperson will make sure gas appliances are connected correctly, flued and vented properly, working properly and most importantly, that it is safe to use. The Board and the New Zealand Insurance Council warn that mistakes are costly and illegal jobs can void insurance policies.


What if that qualified person had a license issued by the PGDB and the job cert was excepted by the PGDB and it blew up (as it did at Milton Street chip shop)?

Would it void their insurance?

Well there are quite a few other certs missing the gas leak test results.....what if they blow up? The work is still out there.....

Just a tad hypocritical?

Offline wombles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #656 on: February 27, 2017, 08:41:00 AM »
Badger, has anyone from the media explained why they cant be arsed in dealing with an injustice? It has become clear that justice is really only for the rich who can foot the bills for expensive lawyers.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #657 on: February 27, 2017, 02:43:01 PM »
The illusion of our justice system is if your on the bottom of the pile you'll get a free not so great lawyer....

If your in the middle.....you pay.....a lot.....you ain't got it......you got no lawyer....mine charged me in the 1000's of dollars....to finally tell me to plead guilty.....to 42 charges that I was found innocent of....thanks Wal

Rich can afford the best and can do as they like....


I'll post you some letters and press releases.....have a look at the reporters name....

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #658 on: February 27, 2017, 02:54:37 PM »
Look at the dates....

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: Fellow Practitioner Issue 236 Dated 12 December 2014
« Reply #659 on: February 27, 2017, 05:27:11 PM »
I went to see Nick smith three years before the explosion and three years before this letter (6 years before the explosion) I had  tried to get the dodgy certs covering dangerous work looked at.....


Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via twitter

Similar Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
clip
Fellow Practitioner Issue 235 Dated 5 December 2014

Started by Wal

5 Replies
2941 Views
Last post December 10, 2014, 09:43:07 AM
by Jaxcat
clip
Fellow Practitioner Issue 184 Dated 6 December 2013

Started by Wal

2 Replies
2486 Views
Last post December 06, 2013, 02:13:52 PM
by Jaxcat
clip
Fellow Practitioner Issue 185 Dated 13 December 2013

Started by Wal

5 Replies
3060 Views
Last post December 13, 2013, 04:01:14 PM
by robbo
clip
Fellow Practitioner Issue 186 Dated 20 December 2013

Started by Wal

1 Replies
1731 Views
Last post December 23, 2013, 06:39:28 AM
by Watchdog
 
Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)