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Offline bowtieboy

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certification help
« on: July 30, 2013, 07:54:43 AM »
morning all, can anyone point me in the right direction ::)
where will i find the legal document that says that a gas fitter must issue a gas fitting certificate for altering a existing installation.?
 

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/gas-certification/71/certification-help/1517/
I believe in doing a job once and right. !

Offline bowtieboy

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Re: certification help
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 05:49:32 PM »
sorry i forgot to say "prior to 1st july 2013"

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: certification help
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2013, 06:13:10 PM »
Gas (Safety and Measurement Regulations 2010) Part 5 r44 - page 31:

44.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: certification help
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 06:16:51 PM »
(1)  For purposes of section 47(1) of the Act, this regulation and regulstions 46 to 48 apply to the following kinds of gasfitting:
(a) gasfitting on newly constructed or imported gas installations
extensions and additions to, and replacement of, existing gas installations
(c) alterations to gas installations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation
(d) repairs to gas installations, gas appliances, or fittings following accidents that are notifiable under section 17 of the Act.

Every person who is responsible for carrying out any gasfitting to which this regulation applies, or, if that person is acting under supervision, the person who is responsible for that supervision, must ensure THAT THE GASFITTING IS CERTIFIED BY A PERSON WHO IS AUTHORISED UNDER THE PLUMBERS, GASFITTERS AND DRAINLAYERS ACT 2006 TO CERTIFY THAT KIND OF GASFITTING


Word for word from the Regs - THESE ARE THE REGS BEFORE 1 JULY 2013 - they have now changed but this is what you wanted I think

Offline bowtieboy

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Re: certification help
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 09:01:09 PM »
Thanks Jax, this will help me in my up coming battle with a installation I originally did and a gas fitter since has altered and DIDNT cert his alteration... its going to court and I am preparing my case... thank you ;D

Offline Wal

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Re: certification help
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 06:18:07 AM »
Is there any thing the Federation or I can do to help?


Wal

Offline bowtieboy

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Re: certification help
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 07:36:21 AM »
Thank you Wal, i appreciate the offer :D
i am of the mind that we have all our facts right and they dont have a chance, provided common sense prevails!(with the judge)

And if it doesn't,..... that's why i am preparing my evidence....... i have been through a nasty divorce ??? ???  so i will prepare the hell out of this.
regards.

This is a very good warning to all of you who do gas fitting.KEEP YOUR RECORDS FOREVER!!! forget the 7 year thing.

Offline Badger

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Re: certification help
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 07:46:34 AM »
Sorry to hear Bowtie.....who is taking you to court mate? is it the Board? Let me know if I can give you any help or insight. I totally know what your up against and the effect it can have.

One thing I would say, don't rely on a non gasfitter (the judge) to be able to understand you technically, and make sure you say as much as you can (as long as it is concise and relevant, which is a hard line to balance) so the evidence is on record, so you can reference it for any appeals (some times you are not allowed to adduce any evidence for an appeal).

Chin up mate....right is might (as long as there isn't any corruption)
You can't choose who you are.....but you are the sum of your choices.......

Offline robbo

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Re: certification help
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 08:07:29 AM »
hi guys/bowtieboy, agree with Badger it seems to me that if you have evidence of your origonal work and can get a statement from the owner at the time of that work they (whoever they are) do not have a case against you. Very important to haul the person that you did the work for into court to say that you did not alter the origonal work, if you can nail down the identity of the person that altered the work then you are home and hosed. Who is taking you to court? surely if they know the story that you are telling is true then they should drop it and look for the right person, good luck,cheers

Offline Wal

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Re: certification help
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 08:44:43 AM »
I am sure there was a case certificate case in Auckland wasn't proceded with by the police as they deemed to longer period had passed and they couldn't prove who had did the work and it was more likely than not that someone had altered work.  You may want to speak with Paul Gee as some of his charges weren't proved because the investigator hadn't done their job properly.  It may be the same investigator. Paul's case had a at least there instances where others had been on site or the site had changed after he had done work. You could possibly use him as a witness or myself to show it is a very common occurrence.

You need to be careful of the onus of proof shifting. Initially the onus to prove is on the Board and once they show you were that last person to certify the site then the onus changes to you. This is where it gets difficult as the only way to prove someone elese has done work is if you have before and after photos, have a witness such as previous owner who can testify the site has changed or even another gas cert done after your one.  More than happy to discuss it further with you.



Wal

Offline wombles

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Re: certification help
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 01:29:43 PM »
Even if you can show that you did not do the work and can show who did, this does not mean that the PGDB will follow it up or even talk to the person who did the work.  The person at fault may never get charged. Don't  hold your breath at the boards incompetence - it's truly staggering. They have a one track mind - if they are out to get you, nothing will stop them.

Offline Badger

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Re: certification help
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 03:32:16 PM »
Hear hear wombles......and this is why each and every person who has ever issued a gas cert should be up in arms about this Board and its direction and corruption..... and not cowering behind the hope that they never come after you and living in fear hoping they don't notice you....They will be looking for investigations to justify their existence.....good luck hiding behind not being noticed.....YOU HAVE ALREADY SIGNED THE CERTIFICATES!!....ITS A WHEN NOT IF THEY COME AFTER YOU.....they need to go after people, to justify their existence.

And they know no loyalty or morals.....assume the position while you cower and get ready for a new one to be torn.

There is a whole feast of investigations (see electric register and paper copies, that they still hold) just about ready for the picking for these clowns, which will become ripe for the picking when the mandatory audit comes in as a condition of re-license.....

How much are we going to have to pay for these  ANNUAL audits?....bet they are not free :o....WHAT WILL THAT BUMP THE YEARLY COST OF A LICENSE........


Offline robbo

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Re: certification help
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 05:06:55 PM »
hi guys, Bowtieboy how did this case come about, can you explain how the (whoever it is) came to know of this work,cheers

Offline bowtieboy

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Re: certification help
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 08:38:04 PM »
evening all, thanks for the support.
I would love to tell you all BUT, this information is very sensitive.
some thing I can tell you is that its NOT pgdb going me, its the building owners
why? because a certifying gas fitter went to the installation and told the owner it was all wrong and needed to be rectified!!!! >:( >:( >:(
the owner then goes me for major $$$$$
my first response is why was there no communication with me BEFORE paying this guy to change anything???
I am gutted
then I receive all the paper work for the court date.... hello !! this guy change my system... and he didn't issue a gas certificate!
there is lots to this case.i will tell all AFTER the court date as I believe you all need to be aware of how a chain of events can lead to a law suit.
this has caused me and my girl no end of stress and you will be horrified when I tell all.
frankly I am gutted that there are arsoles out there that will do this to their pears in our industry.
I think I know what it was like for you badger! make you want to walk away from this bs and go do some thing so less stressful like be a gardener for the local council, or be a rubbish collector or work behind a counter.  ???

Offline bowtieboy

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Re: certification help
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 08:46:38 PM »
sorry I should add that this gas fitter/ end trail may be viewing this web site, so I wont be giving him any clues to who what and when.
but I WILL have my day.. trust me >:(


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