hi guys/badger,i guess as long as certs are in and no problems arise the board are not interested, also we don`t want to make them any more of a policeman than they are already. The two 9kg is a common sight these days, people dont want to pay the bottle rental which i believe is $90 these days on top of an ever increasing gas cost,cheers

Hi Robbo/Badger
Having the certs is is only part of the job.  If you have a certifying who is certifying other's work then he MUST be present at time of testing and commissioning.  If he is not even on site when this happens then he is breaching the regulations and as such could face disciplinary action by the Board.  Those that he is supposedly "supervising" whether employed by him or others - must also have a licence of sorts - either be licensed gasfitters or exemption holders.  If exemption holders then they must have held an exemption for two years or more, and they must not connect to the live pipework.  This is my understanding of what the PGDB say under their rules around supervision etc.  I do not understand why a certifying gasfitter would sign off work done by others if they are not his employees, and why he would sign this work off without at least sighting it.  You would need to be an idiot to do that in this day and age when the full weight of the PGDB can come down on you.

If you believe this is happening you can notify the PGDB. 

Badger - don't give up yet, the majority of this industry do things properly - there are always going to be some cowboys out there - but I believe we need to educate the public.  When we miss out on a quote I always thank the people and just as a final note I tell them to ensure the person doing their work is licensed and tell them how to check on www.pgdb.co.nz under the Public section - just to ensure they are getting a proper tradesperson coming, and to ensure they get a gas certificate.  I've had at least half a dozen jobs come back to us on this basis - so obviously the "cheaper" jobs were being done by those that were not licensed.

I have read the GAs Act and various other bits and bobs. Can someone please tell the the Regulation that states a Certifying Gasfitter must do the testing. I can only find references to "must be satisfied" .

Womble - I've found this:

From PGDB website under Licensing:
Where testing is necessary to ensure the work meets the requirements of the Building Code, the certifying plumber is responsible for the testing and verification of work done by people under their supervision. Typical tests required are described in G12 and AS/NZS 3500.

and

Exempt workers must not work on any appliance connected to a gas supply and their work must be tested and certified by a certifying gasfitter before being connected to the gas supply

So you are right - but the certifier takes FULL responsibility for testing and certification - if he has staff or is sigining off for others he wants to make damn sure they are following a regime that he is satisfied with - as it will not be an acceptable defence to say you weren't there.

As far as exemption holders go - for the first year of an apprenticeship you cannot pass off this responsibility and exemption holdes can't test a gas appliance connected to a gas supply full stop.

Tried that before mate, with my old boss, tried telling the Board about dodgy/altered certs and work since 2003, then a chip shop exploded in 2009 and I've had my life turned upside down for over two years and my business ruined with lying letters and dodgy auditing.............because its all about who you know and not what you know. The same types of dodgy certs mentioned in the OAG report.Got my hearing beginning of May, keep an eye out in the press and TV.

My old boss got gifted his craftsman exam after JUST ONE ORAL EXAM, by the "impartial " investigator, the very one leading the audit in to me, and even though I got photos of Board Members, my boss and this investigator all together, at the very time I was complaining about my boss, the Board ruled at their own hearing that they were impartial, so I don't have much confidence in the system.

Hi Chilly

I agree that things at the PGDB haven't been good, or even done legally if the OAG report and the RRC recommendation is any judge.  I have also been one of the people that has said personal abuse won't get you anywhere.  We need to separate the "staff" who are doing as they are directed and the "Board" who make the governance decisions.  Staff do not deserve to get personally abused - they have a job description and an employment contract - as such they are expected to carry out the job as described and act on instructions from their CEO and the "Board".  I'm all for holding the "Board" to account, and if any Board staff work outside their mandate, or act illegally, then by all means use every method at your disposal.

I think in Badger's case - a decision was taken to prosecute.  Now from everything I have read I think Badger has a good chance of being found not guilty for the charges laid.  I don't think people have done their job properly and I suspect the investigator contracted by the "Board" has done a poor job.  All these things will come out in the open in the next week or two - once the hearing takes place and everything becomes public knowlege.  Then it will be time to turn up the heat.  I believe practitioners have been "scared" of complaining to the Board about the Board - just in case the spotlight is turned on you and you become a target of prosecution.  I don't know that there is any truth in that (i.e. that the spotlight gets turned on you) - but I've spoken with enough practitioners who don't want to complain just in case they rise the ire of the Board. 

We are being presented with a unique opportunity at the present time - the PGDF has turned the spotlight on the Board and found it wanting in many aspects.  He heat has come on them to tidy up their act and behave lawfully.  Now is the time for practitioners to write in about their concerns.

We need to maintain integrity and credability, if we rant and personally attack anyone (and god knows I have had reason too, and might have once or twice when I am at bursting point) we will play right into their hands. We need one clear and concise voice that only relies on fact and reality in law, if we step out side of that we will fail, because the odds are stacked against us, it is the way the system has been set up. They are given the benefit of doubt , while we are accused and guilty until proven innocent, this is how it is, right now. I have been lied about, threatened and sickened by the levels they will stoop, but if I do as they are trying to force me to, then I am no better than them.
I totally agree with jax and chilly, we need numbers and action, but it needs to be done in the right way. The system is flawed, so you use the system against the system, in a professional manner with integrity. To divide and conquer is ancient, because it works. We need cohesion and unity. If we scatter and retreat, they will hound us out of the trade. Bullies don't fare well in the light of a crowd of people who stand firm. Get your names down with the Federation. It is about numbers and one voice. They have integrity and know the system, I speak from experience, THEY ARE THERE WHEN EVERYONE (THATS EVERYONE), TURNS THEIR BACKS, PUTTING IN THE HARD YARDS, ALL THEY ASK FOR IS YOUR SUPPORT, NOT MONEY OR TIME JUST SUPPORT,JUST BE A MEMBER, IT IS THAT EASY, OR ARE WE IN SUCH A COUNTRY THAT TO BE A MEMBER OF AN ACTION GROUP GIVES THE AUTHOURITIES AN EXCUSE TO SINGLE YOU OUT???