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Author Topic: Gas Fitting Certification  (Read 36803 times)

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Offline bowtieboy

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2013, 08:50:32 PM »
do I have to issue a gsc for servicing a gas appliance????  ::)
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Offline Badger

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2013, 08:58:16 PM »
 ???
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Offline happyplumber

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2013, 09:32:55 PM »
You are not required to issue either a CoC or GSC for the maintenance of gas appliances and fittings in an installation. Normal maintenance is classified as "low risk" gasfitting.
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Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2013, 09:57:28 PM »
Actually happy plumber I think you may find that is incorrect - if you change a gas valve, or a thermocouple for example I think a GSC is required.   Check out the ESS website and look at the graph - Low Risk gasfitting REQUIRES a Gas Safety Certificate.  Reference "Practitioner Guide to the Regulatory Changes for Certification of Gasfitting" MOBIE p2 (1st edition May 2013), and again in another graph on their website. 

The COC is optional for low risk gasfitting.
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Offline Badger

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2013, 07:36:18 AM »
So if you change a thermocouple on a fire you didn't install, the first time you see it is when you go to repair it.....you "sign it off" as being safe, but something is changed after you leave or you miss something that you can't see and it goes horribly wrong.......are we to strip every flue to make sure its right or to photograph every thing we visit in case someone alters it after you leave?

Someone could decide they don't want the vent in the wall and plaster over it, you will have to prove that it was there, so now I have to photograph every inch of a maintenance/service job?. Remember you are guilty until proven innocent, the Board have received even more power and resources, the ESS might be administering this  system, but it will be the Board who police it and persecute you.

How much of the carcass/pipework/supply is down to you, the fire can't work with out a supply.

How long is a GSC valid for? the seven years that you must keep a copy?

Feels like a lot of signing off, for a lot of responsibility.

How much are you guys charging for these GSC's and the data storage and responsibility that goes with it?
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Offline Badger

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2013, 08:00:06 AM »
What happens if you come across something that contravenes the regs but has been working fine for 20 years, for example a flue which has a terminal too low, too close to the roof, you test it for spillage and it passes.....you change the thermocouple on the fire.....you get it going, do you sign it off? Might be working because it is an optimum weather day, might spill tomorrow.

Are we to check over a whole system for any faults/unconformities to the regs before we start work? what if they don't tell you about a part of the carcass? you might tell them it needs not only a thermocouple but another length of flue? they say f**** off I'll get the moron back to change the thermo couple, the one who installed it, how do you charge for this cancelled visit?

Remember we can't turn anyone's gas off, its their property....we can only inform ESS  and the client about potentially dangerous jobs and dangerous jobs. They will go to someone who WILL issue a GSC and not charge for all this "extra" work, putting the good gasfitters at a disadvantage and the cowboys as the go to guy......I HAVE LIVED THIS SYNARIO, please don't tell me I am being paranoid.

And when it explodes....they WILL f**** you over....and protect their mates......good luck signing this shit off people.

We have now become the Board from a responsibility and data storage perspective ....being overlooked and stood over by a group who couldn't do it them selves properly.....remember the disclaimer on the electronic register for gas certs......do as we say not as we do......hypocrites.

What are you going to charge for this privilege?...all brought in to cut costs.....to them, not us or the customer.....
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Offline wombles

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2013, 08:18:07 AM »
Badger, you really don't have to worry about ESS. If there is a complaint, they ring up the customer to discuss it with them. As far as I can see that's ALL they do. Certainly didn't appear to send anyone out to check or shut down system. Certainly wont be bothering complaining about a dangerous installation again. And whats with the "Must tell the people who complained about their work" Surely this is counterproductive especially in a small town. The result of this is that I could take you for a walk and show you 50 bad installations in a couple of hours. NO-ONE cares
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Offline Watchdog

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2013, 08:43:02 AM »
I think you do have to worry.  I know of a case where a customer complained to the Board, the Board sent an officerwaller to do an audit, the officewaller complained to ESS, ESS sent out an investigator who investigated and laid a complaint with the Board who then appointed an investigator to investigate as a discipline issue. 

So I believe there is plenty to worry about
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Offline happyplumber

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2013, 09:05:38 AM »
Jaxcat I think you may be confusing installation work and maintenance work. A GSC is required prior to connecting a low risk (or general or high risk) installation to the gas supply. That is the purpose of the GSC - to certify that the installation is safe to connect. Maintenance work does not normally involve the connection to the gas supply (it is already connected), so no GSC is required.

Maintenance work does not require a CoC provided the work does not make any changes to the installation pipework, flue system, installation pressure, gas type, energy consumption, ventilation or operation of the installation. Changing a thermocouple or gas valve like for like would not (normally) cause any changes to the installation, co no CoC would be required.
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Offline Badger

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2013, 06:16:15 PM »
I would really love to get this clarified
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Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2013, 06:21:28 PM »
So happy plumber, if you are changing a gas valve, then you need to terminate the gas supply to change the valve, and then reconnect the gas supply - I still believe a GSC is required for this from reading the paperwork. 

And I still think a thermocouple fits into this too.

From the Gas and Safey Measurement Regs 2010
Meanings of low-risk .....

"Low risk gasfitting means gasfitting that comprises any of the following:
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5A (1) (b) the maintenance of fittings and appliances in an installation, other than repair work that is carried out following an accident that is notifiable under section 17 of the Act:"

I am interesting in discussing this though, as it does have ramifications for servicing gasfitters. 
What do you think happyplumber?

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Offline Badger

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2013, 08:58:47 PM »
And this is the problem.....

We have a situation open to interpretation with the analysing of policy and the deciphering of legalise, by practical people .

Why does this have to be so bloody confusing.


Most, if not all, good tradesman I know are practical, straight forward people.....this type of confusion just don't fit with us.


Are they doing a road show to explain this.....or perhaps they will wait until we make mistakes.....which will confirm our need to up-skill....
 
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Offline happyplumber

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2013, 09:54:50 PM »
Jaxcat, not sure what you mean by "terminate" the gas supply, but if you mean disconnect the supply i.e. disconnect a house at the meter to carry out maintenance, then I agree a GSC is required on reconnection. But if you only isolate the gas supply to perform the maintenance then a GSC is not applicable as there is no connection or disconnection.

The maintenance of fittings and appliances is low risk gasfitting under 5A(1)(b) as you have noted, so provided that a maintenance (i.e. replacement part) change is like for like, the no CoC is required (its optional of course).

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Offline robbo

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2013, 10:42:15 PM »
hi guys, what a nightmare, do you thik the board will will refund my licence? not sure that it is worth it anymore,cheers
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Offline Watchdog

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Re: Gas Fitting Certification
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2013, 04:51:16 AM »
By now everyone should be realising this is the Government passing the buck with their hands off approach to regulation. Just another action to pass responsibility on to others. Some of the industry welcomed self certification and look where it's taking us. The public was safer when we had gas inspectors.

Whats going to happen when drainlaying and plumbing go to self certification?

I personally think this is another way of increasing the Boards income through discipline as there is so much open to interpretation and none of the government departments or the Board are prepared to to give us their interpretation.  We have to take the bloody Act and Regs to our lawyers to get their version and we know lawyers aren't always right just ask the ones that advised the Board about their fee structure.

Absolute bunch of tossers.
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