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Author Topic: Gasfitters are doing it for themselves  (Read 2400 times)

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Offline Jaxcat

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Gasfitters are doing it for themselves
« on: July 17, 2013, 09:30:51 PM »
Wellington and Hutt Valley gasfitters are doing it for themselves!!  No longer relying on the PGDB or the ESS, they have organised two get togethers to discuss the new Certification Scheme and the new Regulations and what it might mean for them as they go about their work.  It seems that ESS are not being very forthcoming in helping gasfitters interpret the regs or the new certification scheme - with two individual gasfitters that contacted them being told "read the regs and if you don't understand them go to your lawyer."

WOW really helpful!!  NOT!

The Hutt Valley meeting had around 40 gasfitters - and the Wellington one around 10 or so.  There was plenty of discussion - and I think everyone went away a bit more knowledgeable, but the other major thing was that gasfitters decided to keep in regular touch and support each other should the Board come after any of them.  The Wellington group are looking at formalising a Gasfitters Prosecution Support Group - to essentially be a think tank for any gasfitter that might be investigated by the Board.  It was felt that this kind of support was needed because the Board's investigation procedures are so sloppy and shoddy and that lawyers do not understand the regulations of the industry.

It would be a marvellous idea if gasfitters around the country organised get togethers in their area (Mico offered a venue in the Hutt Valley), but other merchants I am sure would be happy to assist their customers.  For those of you that are Federation members, perhaps you could initiate it in your area by sending an email out - perhaps these could be the first "chapter" meetings for the Federation.  If someone brings the regs and then simply chairs the meeting you will find that there will be plenty of chat as gasfitters come to grips with the challenges.  For those in the servicing industry there is quite some changes about what is expected from them, and the public are going to be aghast at the charges I am sure.  We just need to ensure we explain that this has been forced upon us. 

Don't worry about being competitors - this is one time we need to come together and work together.

If you try this in your area - let us all know how you get on.  I would say the Hutt Valley and Wellington meetings were a great start.
One other thing that came up is that we can't expect the Board or ESS to explain any of this to us - they simply don't want to be helpful it would appear.   So gasfitters need to "do it for themselves". 

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/gas-certification/71/gasfitters-are-doing-it-for-themselves/1510/
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline Badger

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Re: Gasfitters are doing it for themselves
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 08:47:28 AM »
More lawyers fees.....unbelievable.

The thing that I find so annoying is they will abound with opinion when it gets to court.....but not before.
You can't choose who you are.....but you are the sum of your choices.......

Offline wombles

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Re: Gasfitters are doing it for themselves
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 01:05:06 PM »
To the 2 guys who were told to see lawyers, have you written to Maurice, your local MP (and every other one as well) ? Please write to the CEO of ESS, if only to have a written trail of complaints.

Offline Badger

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Re: Gasfitters are doing it for themselves
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 03:19:23 PM »
FYI guys.....comments?

This information bulletin is intended to be read by licensed certifying gasfitters. It is guidance only and is not a substitute for a full knowledge of the Gas (Safety & Measurement) regulations 2010 (the regulations).

 

How has gasfitting certification changed?

 

Before 1 July 2013, gasfitting certification had to include a number of things. You had to describe what work had been carried out and you had to make a statement that the gasfitting work you carried out or supervised was compliant with the regulations.

 

Under the new Certificate of Compliance (CoC) requirements you must complete a statement that you are satisfied the work carried out is lawful, safe and is accurately described.

 

Under the old system, the certificate also included a statement from you that the gas installation was safe to connect and that the gasfitting you carried out did not make the other parts of the installation unsafe.

 

With the new Gas Safety Certificate (GSC), you are making a statement that you are satisfied that the connected gas installation (or part installation) is safe to use and that any work you have completed or supervised does not adversely affect the other parts of the installation.

 

Does a GSC need to be issued?

 

All gasfitting must have a GSC.

 

A GSC must be issued whether or not the gas supply was disconnected. Although regulation 52B talks about the person doing the connection must issue the GSC, regulation 52B(4) goes on to read that where the gas supply was not actually disconnected, the regulation should be read as though the person completing the work should issue the GSC.

 

All high risk and general work must also have a CoC (and is optional for low risk).

 

High risk work must be registered on the Energy Safety high risk database. The database is simply a register of some of the details of high-risk certification carried out. It is not the certification itself.

 

How do I determine the risk type?

 

Practitioners need to work through regulation 5A in order to determine which risk category their gasfitting  work covers.

 

The regulation first defines what low risk work is. For instance, maintenance of a gas appliance is low risk work if it comprises gasfitting. For example, fitting new parts would be gasfitting, blowing out lint is not.

 

If what you are doing is not low-risk then you look at the high-risk list. The high-risk list includes alterations or additions to existing installations. New installations are not considered to be high-risk unless they are one of the eleven other types of high-risk work listed. 

 

These eleven variations include such things as work on caravans with sleeping quarters (‘specified’ caravans); they also include work on a building of three storeys with three dwellings; and repairs after an accident. 

 

Note that low-risk “trumps” high-risk. Maintenance in a caravan or a three storey building is low-risk.

 

If the work is not low or high-risk then it is general gasfitting.

 

What do I do if the installation I am certifying is unsafe?

 

The first thing to note is there is a significant difference between something that is non-compliant with the installation code and something that is unsafe.  A non-compliant situation is not necessarily unsafe. The regulations list situations that are deemed to be unsafe. See regulations 11 to 14.

 

There is an existing obligation to advise the occupant and owner and then Energy Safety if you come across a situation that is immediately dangerous. Immediately dangerous is a situation where an unsafe condition could immediately present a hazard to life or property.

 

The new regulations also state there where you are proposing to issue a GSC and you are not satisfied that the connected gas installation is safe to use or you are not satisfied that the work you have completed does not adversely affect the other parts of the installation then you must disconnect the installation (or part installation) you are certifying.

 

This does not prevent you or another person fixing the fault before reconnecting but you may need to seek permission from the owner before continuing.

 

Can we use alternative standards to gain compliance?

 

The regulatory regime for gas installations has for some time allowed alternatives to the means of compliance provided in the installation standard, provided essential safety can be demonstrated to be met. 

 

The recent amendments to the regulations that came into effect on 1 July 2013 do not change that.  In fact, the amended regulations provide a formalised means for recognising alternatives through Certified Designs as specified in regulation 43. 

 

The relevant regulations are 9, 11 – 13, 43 and 44.


 

 

Again alternatives can be used, but....and this is where I have a problem with all this.....its all down to our interpretation of the regs, what we believe to be safe or not.....but its isn't until you get to a court room or a hearing that you can get an opinion or direction. Remember what happened to me when I used an alternative source of information.....which I could later prove performance by means of a British Standard to be right.......



How much are you going to build in to your rates to cover these lawyers fees now?

The guy I have been dealing with seems helpful and friendly.....I find it interesting that the removal of lint is not gasfitting......but is removing a burner to clean properly and then replacing ...is that gasfitting?



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