That reminds me - after reading your post I approached the companies we are service agents for - I haven't heard back from any of them - phone calls coming tomorrow.   Sparkies certs were only $6 to buy prior to the change over so they have never charged much - more fool them if they don't charge for the responsibility.  But the admin in these certs is only growing, testing, writing out the cert - the office lady typing it up, the one or two guys signing it, taking photos of the installation and then printing them off and attaching them to our copy of the cert and then when applicable entering it all on to the ESS database.  $90 is cheap!! 

I spoke to a person at ESS yesterday who had replied to a query I had regarding gas certificates.
After telling me I had to issue  GSC for every service job I did, regardless of how small, I asked him did he realise how much extra cost this was putting on to the Industry, and eventually the consumer.
He could not believe that we were charging,(or trying to) for certificates, and kept on spluttering "but they are free to download!".
I tried to tell him that as well as downloading, we then had to fill these things out, attach photographs, send them out, store them for seven years, as well as cover insurance and admin costs, but all I got was "they are free to download!"
I also asked who was the bright spark who thought this scheme up, but of course the reply was "I wasn't here then"
Obviously ESS have no idea what is going on, this is going to lead to big problems soon, something needs to be done, not quite sure where to go from here.

The reason this guy can't get his head around why we are charging for our time and future responsibility , even though the "certs" are free to down load,  these people have no respect for us, we are lowly tradesman, to be shafted and squeezed for time and money, to bail out a badly run system....that loads us with all the responsibility and frees the powers that be from all the responsibility and running costs.



It is written by lawyers for lawyers.........there is no practicality in it, it is conflicting and confusing......so you need a lawyer to fight it.


Confusion in red............







This information bulletin is intended to be read by licensed certifying gasfitters. It is guidance only and is not a substitute for a full knowledge of the Gas (Safety & Measurement) regulations 2010 (the regulations).

 

How has gasfitting certification changed?

 

Before 1 July 2013, gasfitting certification had to include a number of things. You had to describe what work had been carried out and you had to make a statement that the gasfitting work you carried out or supervised was compliant with the regulations.

 

Under the new Certificate of Compliance (CoC) requirements you must complete a statement that you are satisfied the work carried out is lawful, safe and is accurately described.

 

Under the old system, the certificate also included a statement from you that the gas installation was safe to connect and that the gasfitting you carried out did not make the other parts of the installation unsafe.

 

With the new Gas Safety Certificate (GSC), you are making a statement that you are satisfied that the connected gas installation (or part installation) is safe to use and that any work you have completed or supervised does not adversely affect the other parts of the installation.

 

Does a GSC need to be issued?

 

All gasfitting must have a GSC.

 

A GSC must be issued whether or not the gas supply was disconnected. Although regulation 52B talks about the person doing the connection must issue the GSC, regulation 52B(4) goes on to read that where the gas supply was not actually disconnected, the regulation should be read as though the person completing the work should issue the GSC.

 

All high risk and general work must also have a CoC (and is optional for low risk).

 

High risk work must be registered on the Energy Safety high risk database. The database is simply a register of some of the details of high-risk certification carried out. It is not the certification itself.

 

How do I determine the risk type?

 

Practitioners need to work through regulation 5A in order to determine which risk category their gasfitting  work covers.

 

The regulation first defines what low risk work is. For instance, maintenance of a gas appliance is low risk work if it comprises gasfitting. For example, fitting new parts would be gasfitting, blowing out lint is not.

 

If what you are doing is not low-risk then you look at the high-risk list. The high-risk list includes alterations or additions to existing installations. New installations are not considered to be high-risk unless they are one of the eleven other types of high-risk work listed. 

 

These eleven variations include such things as work on caravans with sleeping quarters (‘specified’ caravans); they also include work on a building of three storeys with three dwellings; and repairs after an accident. 

 

Note that low-risk “trumps” high-risk. Maintenance in a caravan or a three storey building is low-risk.

 

If the work is not low or high-risk then it is general gasfitting.

 

What do I do if the installation I am certifying is unsafe?

 

The first thing to note is there is a significant difference between something that is non-compliant with the installation code and something that is unsafe.  A non-compliant situation is not necessarily unsafe. The regulations list situations that are deemed to be unsafe. See regulations 11 to 14.

 

There is an existing obligation to advise the occupant and owner and then Energy Safety if you come across a situation that is immediately dangerous. Immediately dangerous is a situation where an unsafe condition could immediately present a hazard to life or property.

 

The new regulations also state there where you are proposing to issue a GSC and you are not satisfied that the connected gas installation is safe to use or you are not satisfied that the work you have completed does not adversely affect the other parts of the installation then you must disconnect the installation (or part installation) you are certifying.

 

This does not prevent you or another person fixing the fault before reconnecting but you may need to seek permission from the owner before continuing.

 

Can we use alternative standards to gain compliance?

 

The regulatory regime for gas installations has for some time allowed alternatives to the means of compliance provided in the installation standard, provided essential safety can be demonstrated to be met. 

 

The recent amendments to the regulations that came into effect on 1 July 2013 do not change that.  In fact, the amended regulations provide a formalised means for recognising alternatives through Certified Designs as specified in regulation 43. 

 

The relevant regulations are 9, 11 – 13, 43 and 44.

 

 

bager your dead right!!!

and lew . your on to it too !

Thanks for that, Certsonline,however, the problem is not so much the actual issuing of the certificate, it is the fact that these idiots from ESS seem to think that we should issue a certificate for a simple service job, or in fact any gasfitting job,which  then means you then take responsibility for the installation, store the certificate for 7 years, arrange and pay for public liability insurance, pay ever increasing licence fees as wall as completing CPD points to give you the authority to issue these certificates, all at no cost!!!
  As I pointed out to the gentleman from ESS, it is all very well sitting in a nice cosy office in Wellington being paid by the taxpayer, it is slightly different out in the real world.

now that is why I am in battle with a appliance co that ... haha doesn't want to pay !
these idiots made these rules with NO consultation and are not responsible for the repercussion... we are!!!
... hmmmm.. ::)can I add wellington pen pusher fee to my gsc ?
bet I blooming well cant!!

I don't want to charge my customers for a gsc to clean their heaters,
I don't want to charge my customers for a gsc to fit a thermocouple to their deep fryer..........
but.... these rule changes have made me... guess that's a full stop.....

AND NO BLOODY WAY AM I GOING TO PUT MY NAME ON A CERT TO ANY JOB WITH OUT COVERING MY ARSE FULLY !!

the consumer will have to pay, I am am not!
regards

hi guys, (the consumer will have to pay) that's right Bowtieboy the govt wants more` user pay` operations so why should we be different, cheers   

they need to get real - realize it is not up to them to say how YOU charge

do you have a written maintenance contract with them?


if they want you to build it into your hourly rate then tally up minimum number of jobs you will do for them in a yr - multiply that by how much you want to charge for the gsc ($90 is too cheap) add that to your expected labour content for that same period and divide by expected time content = new rate they can suck on...

Just a thought Bowtie.....


They stated that they are on a sub committee to ganz and discuss the issue. they think it should be built into the labour rate with a reasonable admin charge for filling the gsc out.  !!!

Just wondering what them being part of a gas interest group has to do with what you charge and the administering of GSC's.

Thing is we have gas advocacy groups, who I guess represent those that sell gas and gas appliances....telling us what to charge for US taking ALL the responsibility for the installation of their gas appliances that use their gas.......


You see I have heard it from the horses mouth (see arse), i.e. Tony Hammond GANZ (Gas Appliance Assoc, NZIGE and many other gas groups) that the responsibility solely lies with the poor bastard that signs these jobs off.




Funny because you have to ask who makes the most money from all this? HHMMMM I wonder.....


Also funny because he lobbied for self certification too, freeing the Gas companies from the responsibility for the safety of the peoples homes they were selling gas too.......conflicts of interest perhaps