Fiona doesn't like us because of the hard work done by Alan Wal Paul and all of us fellows around this country because we are showing them up and they get paid to look after there members and I have to say when I spoke to the master plumbers they were never interested in helping trainees or overseas plumbers. NO MONEY IN IT FOR THEM       JOHN TAUPO

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/master-plumbers/66/fellow-practioners-have-done-more-in-3mths-than-masterplumbers-in-10years/498/

Good response jaxcat , I also believe calmness and rationality will win in the end , I agree  practitioners have had enough of the nonsense thrown at us over at least the last 10 years , I must say Wal is to be congratulated for sticking with the issues , hopefully some common sense (dare I use those words ) will be forthcoming in the months ahead .

Just an aside , it will be interesting when the builders are subject to the requirements we are  , they will be a lot more vocal I believe . We have let the` board`get away with too much and they have believed they are the one who  have complete control .

We are already subject to the  building act, the gas act, the local authorities , the designers , the consultants , the consumer act and the client Ive probably missed a few , so why do the board think they are the be all and end all ?

Name one thing that the master plumbers have done for our trade other than feather their own nests? I dont believe that a course they run can possibly cost over $200 per head. Its a bloody joke.

Worked with NZ Standards on standards for plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying
Provided upskilling courses (and despite what you say about feathering their own nests - there are not that many courses available outside of MP - so they have put in an investment into our industry that others have not been willing to)
Ran the roadshow around NZ to inform ALL practitioners about the 2006 Act
Just a few things seeing as you asked.In so far as course costs go - the cost of getting a course written in the language that the ITO will approve and the PGDB will then allow on its website with points attached costs around $3k - $5k.  Of course the members would expect non members to pay more.  I don't believe MP will make money out of this.  The profits from the main centre courses will be offset by MP running courses in far flung places like Gisborne, Blenheim, Timaru, and other smaller areas where most presenters don't travel due to the high costs and low returns.  Overall non members will be subsidising members for attending - but if you belong to an organisation doesn't this happen everywhere.  You don't have to attend MP run courses - if you can get cheaper courses somewhere else then do them - but the fact is that MP is taking its role seriously and trying to cover  the whole geographic area - but they aren't going to do this for free.

Hi Robbo

MP do have correspondence courses on 5261 (2 papers) I am not sure if there are correspondence courses for plumbing - possibly not at this time but I am sure they will come.  MP responded to member requests to run upskilling.  I am one of many members who asked for this so I could ensure it was easy to make sure my staff were all upskilled.  The fact is upskilling is required under the Act - if we didn't do it then we wouldn't get our licenses.  I understand the frustration - I really do - and I am not 100% in agreement with some of the courses on offer.  We do support the technical courses because quite simply - this is what will benefit my business.  Staff also attend other non technical courses as their role might require e.g. if they are foreman we might send them on a course for supervision, or an advanced site safe course - but only if they will add value to the business. 

The only way clear cut picture will emerge of what is legally required and what is not is, unfortunately, a legal case mounted against the PGDB.  This will require money from practitioners - a lot of money - and is the sole reason I believe why no challenge has been mounted previously as no one practitioner could afford to take on the PGDB with all its hundreds of thousands of dollars in reserve. 

I really appreciate this forum as a way to discuss ideas - everyone I think it on the same page - we just read the lines differently!

A1 that is your democratic choice.  I have absolutely no problems with that.  I just think that its a shame we are at each other's throats when the villan is the PGDB, not other practitioners.

You know A1 - I think that is a great shame.  What an opportunity that was missed to get you along to the meeting and you may have been so impressed with what you saw and heard that you thought it might be of interest to join.  I am sorry that this was your experience - all I can do is assure you that this is not the way all Master Plumber Associations run.  Many would have welcomed you with open arms and used the opportunity to showcase what they do and perhaps eventually sign you up as a member once you had seen the benefits.

IM STILL RIGHT.   IF THE MASTER PLUMBERS DIDN'T MAKE MONEY FROM THE MISFORTUNE OF THE REAL PLUMBERS OF THIS COUNTRY THEY WOULD JUST DISSAPEAR AND OF COURSE WE WOULD ALL BE HAPPY

BUT THEY LIKE TO SEE US ALL HURTING  BECAUSE IT MEANS DOLLARS  OH YES YOU CAN KEEP TELLING YOURSELVES THAT THEY CARE ABOUT OUR TRADE BUT DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW IT S-it so get a life we are still hurting and what have they done. NOTHING AS USAUL

"and learning how to heat and ventilate a room has nothing to do with plumbing what so ever. Its HVAC, which is a completely different trade."...Well said a1plumb...This is my view exactly...when we had to do technical drawing and the hvac transition pieces in sheet metal...i thought WTF has this to do with plumbing...absoutley nothing!...nothing but a waste of my brain power and time trying to remember something that i will never use AT ALL...i complained to a tutor asking what the hell are you doing teaching me this crap!...I deal with water and waste!...he reckoned some idiot with connections in the board who had a plumbing and hvac company pushed for this hvac crap as part of the unit standards we must pass in order to do pulmbing work....I spent more time at tech on roofing and sheetmetal and welding and hvac than i did on actual plumbing and real world plumbing situations

You know for Four years bloody schooling people should be comming out of tech bloody expert plumbers but because we have to learn friken stupid things like hvac,how to friken weld a 6mm tube...you have to have a ticket to weld correctly and to get insurrance cover!...yet they persist with this false world learning...if i did 4 years solid plumbing learning...then i would be upto play with these uv units and these undersink instant boiling units...

The whole NZQA unit standards for plumbing needs to be stripped back and re-assesed to give apprentises the most indepth knowledge they can in there CHOSEN field of work...i most definatly did not choose to become a competent HVAC installer...i chose to be the best plumber that i could and HVAC aint got nothing to do with that!.


And my father who once was a MP member warned me away from them cus he never got any benifits from all the fees he payed to them...and also he reckoned after speaking to one of there x legal team that MP's played a part in the reduclious past exams...based on the fact that if they made the exams too hard to pass it would help to keep there cheep labour workforce...or something like that...anyways i have a distrust of the MP assoiation as i would never want to work for an orgisination where you could not fault others work in the same orginisation...

But like jaxcat said every dog to there bone!