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Poll

How should supervision be regulated?

Every certifying ticket should be limited to a number of people.
4 (22.2%)
The certifying individual must register the job and keep a diary of events.
4 (22.2%)
No regulation is needed, this is my retirement plan.
0 (0%)
"Contracting" to a supervisor should not be allowed, only allowed as an employee.
4 (22.2%)
People without a certifying ticket should not be able to register a limited company.
6 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Certifying Supervision  (Read 4003 times)

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Offline Plumber

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Certifying Supervision
« on: February 08, 2017, 01:12:49 PM »
Have you heard of a certifying plumber, gasfitter or drainlayer that "signs off" work for unqualified individuals?

With the current national demand for plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers unqualified guys leaving employment even apprenticeships to make a couple of dollars more are flooding the industry.

They are working under certifying mates or retired trademen that provide little to no supervision, making a profit while homeowners and insurance providers remain clueless.

The idea that one can "sign off" any job for anyone as long as they are under that ticket seems to defeat the purpose of whole PGDB cowboy campaign, failing to realise that the whole legal system is part of the problem.

Some questions:

Why bother putting in all that effort to get qualified when I can get a mate to sign off for $100?

How is supervision audited?

Have your say.

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/pgdb-new-zealand-plumbing-gasfitting-and-drainlaying-board/30/certifying-supervision/2063/
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Offline robbo

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Re: Certifying Supervision
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »
hi guys, yes I don't think the system works at all. ("Signing off" work for unqualified individuals) I'm sure that this happens a lot, it probably happens in companies too bosses signing off work for its own workers who may be partially qualified I don't suspect that another employee would do it.  (How is supervision audited) not very well or not at all I would guess, its not likely that a certifier will be present at every job carried out by a non certifier the cost of every job would go through the roof. I also suspect that an unlicensed under supervision worker will not be supervised amounting to `cheap `labour`. The entire system of the present licensing rules makes very little sense and defies the possibility of ever being able to work correctly. Its ok catching the odd COWBOY but if all the big companies were to be examined with a fine tooth come it would probably show that they are not working by the rules that the board have set for all in our trades,  cheers     

Offline wombles

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Re: Certifying Supervision
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 11:19:35 AM »
Over the holidays there is a large increase in plumbers offering their services on our local facebook pages. I have often wondered if their Supervisors are aware of what their apprentices  and registered guys do on their holidays. Now that the Board has changed the Public Register it is not possible to see who the supervisor is to warn them or indeed even to check who is ultimately responsible. Why did this this change occur?

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Certifying Supervision
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 08:47:44 PM »
I think the change occurred somewhat to stop people going on line getting people's ticket numbers and using them falsely.  And I think there may have been some legal reason about them not being publically available.

I think after the CPD course last year there will be some more people caught as I thought that was the warning shot.  Educate, give some time to bed in and then there is absolutely no excuse if people break the law. 

The answer to this problem is relatively simple. Extend the apprenticeship as the Federation have been constantly pushing for and make everyone who completes work competent i.e. able to work unsupervised.  If we did a 5 year apprenticeship with proper training then I believe we would be producing competent individuals who could be responsible for their own work.   This means the method of training also needs to change with proper block courses where tutors teach and not just assess, and competent on job training, not employers who shove people in vans too early.  I know the Federation is looking for feedback on this - and it is a sensible way to get rid of the supervision problem.  We all know of people "selling" their ticket and it's just plain wrong.  Electricians can do an apprenticeship and sign off certificates at the end of it, what is so different about our trades?  it is a rort bought in when apprenticeships were shortened and business papers etc had to be sat - it effectively oppressed the workers in this industry.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet


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