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Author Topic: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation  (Read 13877 times)

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Offline robbo

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2009, 10:35:07 PM »
hi,this is a letter that i sent to the board after getting their memo on that gasfitter up north, i also sent it to the minister of building.
Dear Sir, The practices that you have outlined have been going on for years. Most Gasfitting work is carried out by registered tradesmen but not all gasfitters, with no or very little supervision. I`ve worked for companies who have not had craftsman gasfitters except for the boss who has not supervised or inspected the work but has filled in the certification forms, this still happens. I as a craftsman gasfitter left the certification to the boss as do other craftsmen that are not willing to take the long term responsibility of installations being just waged workers. I also know of craftsman gasfitters who have sold gas certificates to other installers because it is lucrative, very foolish I know but any system will be abused by somebody, the only way to stop it is to change it.
 I believe that craftsman status should be discontinued with registration being the highest level of qualification. I also believe that self certification should be discontinued with gas inspectors re-introduced who would be part of the district council operation. Most companies charge $120.00 or more for a $25.00 certificate purchased from the pgd.board, plus $75.00 per hr for gasfitting work because this work has become exclusive since the introduction of self certification. Dropping craftsman status and self certification also introducing gas inspectors would make the industry more affordable giving scope for paid gas inspectors, safer work and remove the selling of certificates to unqualified installers. 

Offline jd24hrs

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2009, 07:16:07 PM »
PLUMBERS BOARD Boss suspended for inquiry

By DAVE BURGESS - The Dominion Post


Last updated 05:00 21/10/2009
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The chief executive of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, Phillip Routhan, has been suspended on full pay while being investigated for potentially serious misconduct – and has been ordered to return official board documents.
The information is contained in a ruling from the Employment Relations Authority obtained by The Dominion Post.
The board went to the authority asking it to make Mr Routhan and his legal representative, Chapman Tripp, return official files and documents that he had taken to his home.
Mr Routhan told the authority that either he or Chapman Tripp had the papers, which included personnel files relating to other board staff.
He said they highlighted several problems within the board, including apparent systemic gasfitting certification failures and substantial failures by board employees.
An interim authority ruling was made on September 18 requiring Mr Routhan and Chapman Tripp to return all files, including computer files, to the board.
The authority said in its ruling that "it would be profoundly inequitable ... to condone Mr Routhan's unauthorised removal of company property by acceding to his argument that their return would somehow disclose the nature of the legal advice he has sought and been provided".
Mr Routhan could not be contacted for comment but he told the authority that since July last year he had been subjected to a sustained campaign by members of the present board to undermine him in his role.
Chapman Tripp and board chairwoman Hazel Armstrong did not return messages asking for comment.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, which is industry-driven with a focus on consumer health and safety, is a statutory board established under the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act.
Its registration and licensing functions are totally funded by revenue from licence and gas certification fees.
Mr Routhan was board chairman in 2006 when the deputy prime minister at the time, Michael Cullen, sacked the entire board.
Dr Cullen's move came after an internal review, and intense select committee scrutiny over an Australian training package that was introduced but found to be outside the board's statutory role.
Mr Routhan was later elected registrar and chief executive of the board.
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NOW IT IS TIME TO TELL YOUR FELLOW PLUMBERS TO STOP PAYING THE BOARD FOR NOTHING. kiwigas.engineers@yahoo.com

Offline robbo

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2009, 09:46:29 PM »
Well look at this, our beloved board in tatters.
 My initial post of "Get rid of the Board" seems well overdue. I hope all you dissbelievers will now get in behind a move to send a strong message to the Govt to rid our trades of total wankers and do some hard thinking of how we can rescue the whole plumbing/gasfitting industry, to get proper training for apprentices/meaninfull exam papers that reflect normal practices and regain tradesmens confidence. You can see from this article that j.D. has put in from todays Dominium Post and read on national news, that the board has been using us as a cash cow for far to long when they seem to only be fethering thier own nests. It seems the other members of the board have been unhappy with the chief executive just as we have. I am personally going to e-mail the Dominion posts write-up to my local mp plus to the minister of building and urge you all to do the same, one to your local Mp and also the minister of building(maurice williamson) if he gets a heap of e-mails all saying the same thing he has to take notice. i had another letter from the board on friday reminding me that i had`ent renewed my gas licence that is the second letter saying the same thing, thats after a phone call from them asking the same thing,i told them that i had given up gas fitting because it had got to stressfull and expensive to go through all the b.s. They must really be down on relicence fees, if you look at the pgdb website under search the register you can see why.

Offline robbo

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 11:38:13 PM »
History is littered with disasters engineered by leaders who exercise their own agendas with rank disregard for common sense or fairness to others, leading to results that totally cripple the intended aim; some of these disasters are never recovered from, our industry may well be one of those disasters.
Many tradesmen in our industry have left the trade and others are looking to other less stressful ways of earning a living, it is probably a good time for new initiatives and thinking as a start to rebuilding an industry that had run smoothly for many years, whether encouragement into the industry can be attained is another matter. With non sencicle training of apprentices, crippling costs and expenses, linked with near total failure of prescribed trade tests and exams, the ability to attract new workers is at best doubtful; personally I would not advise anyone into the trade.
With a good deal of basic training and sound knowledge of standard systems, materials, regulations, that are used in the industry, the trades of plumbing, gasfitting, drainlaying are not that difficult, in fact the industry has become easier with the introduction of plastic based materials and simpler ways of pipe jointing etc.
There have been some very bad examples of workmanship carried out in the past by untrained handy people that have had dire consequences, that will never change and has nothing to with tradesmen who have come through a properly prescribed training regime. No amount of rules and regulations will stop handymen from having a go at D.I.Y.
The PGD board has made our industry subdued and an unhappy one to be in at the moment and in my opinion needs removing, does the industry need a board? It has not proved to be helpful and advantageous for what it is supposed to stand for, a properly trained industry does not need group of people who use stand over tactics to justify their own existence. The industry is in dire need of sensible training initiatives without outrageous costs and expectations of trainees. I hope someone in higher office can inject common sense answers to an over problematic state of affairs that is the plumbing, gasfitting, drainlaying industry.           
 

Offline robbo

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2010, 02:23:13 PM »
hi guys, jax may want to see this.
Gasfitter in clear over false-certificate claims  By Jared Savage  A police inquiry into an experienced gasfitter who was accused of signing hundreds of bogus safety certificates has cleared him of any wrongdoing. The Weekend Herald revealed in September that hundreds of homes and businesses had been fitted with potentially illegal and dangerous gas connections which authorities say could put people at risk of fire or poisoning. Police and Government authorities began investigating nearly 400 blank safety certificates that appeared to be signed by a craftsman gasfitter, then sold to up to eight unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland. The sales went on for nearly three years until a homeowner noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the government licensing body, the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drain layers Board, in July. However, criminal charges will not be laid against the gasfitter at the centre of the inquiry. It now appears as though the safety certificates were able to be FALSIFIED BECAUSE OF A LOOPHOLE LEFT OPEN BY THE GASFITTERS BOARD. Police spokeswoman Noreen Hegarty said the investigation was finished and there was insufficient evidence pointing to any criminal activity. One of the factors considered by police was the large time delay between the time of installation of fittings and the audit dates - in some cases three years - during which time any number of people could have had access to fittings and gas installation. Some fittings failures were beyond the certifier's control, said Ms Hegarty."For example, after installing and certifying a wall-mounted gas water heater at a property, a builder at the site later installed a vent beside the gas water heater, causing the gas fitter's job to fail a compliance test," she said.Ms Hegarty pointed out that - prior to very recent changes to the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drain layers website - anyone could purchase a book of gas certificates and use someone else's name. All details needed to complete a gas safety certificate are available online, as the man at the centre of the inquiry is listed as a craftsman gasfitter with his registration number. Anyone could buy a booklet of certificates from the board, fill in the gasfitter's details, and then forge his signature. The craftsman gasfitter, 72, welcomed the exoneration by police but declined to comment further. The embarrassing loophole has since been closed by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drain layers Board but chairman Kern U'ren did not return phone calls yesterday. An audit of more than 370 commercial premises and private homes found more than 90 per cent failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe. At the time, gas investigator John DeBernardo said the blank certificates were a small fraction of the 100,000 issued during the three-year period. WHILE MOST WERE TECHNICAL BREACHES AND THE NUMBER OF POTENTIALLY LETHAL GAS LEAKS WERE SMALL, he urged anyone with information to come forward.
Funny what you can find on the net. i think that the board should have informed us of this (in a memo) as well as the other one that they sent telling us of the problem in the first place.

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: PGDB absolutely terrible for a proffessional organisation
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2010, 01:37:02 PM »
Hi Robbo - well that little story made my day!!  As you say we won't see any public retraction from the PGDB telling us that half the problem was theirs!!  It's also interesting as this is the example that Maurice Williamson used at the Master Plumber's Conference for why we need CBL and also that this industry needed to clean itself up.  The Board have also cited it as an example of why the disciplinary levy needed to go up as major investigations like the Auckland one cost a lot of money.  We had a similar issue with a water heater we installed over 12 months ago on LPG with a heat pump installer coming some 8 months after us and putting the outdoor compressor right next to the LPG bottles.  We got audited and were told it was a technical fail, despite  the homeowner telling the auditor that the Infinity was put in a year ago and the heat pump only two months ago.  It took a strongly worded letter to both Energy Safety and the PGDB before everyone agreed it was a nonsense and no "fail audit" invoice was issued.  Thanks for posting that Robbo!  I'll bet there is some red faces at the PGDB.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet


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