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Author Topic: PGDB August info brief  (Read 4151 times)

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Offline aboutgas

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PGDB August info brief
« on: August 22, 2011, 08:45:26 PM »
I Quote  :(

Next month the Board will undertake more
public consultation and invites you to have
your say on the Board’s proposal to reset
the disciplinary levy. Here we outline the
key elements of the Board’s proposal and
encourage you all to make a submission next
month when the consultation period opens.
Essentially, the Board will propose next month that
the discipline levy be reset to reflect our current
assessment of the costs relating to the discipline of
registered persons only. In resetting the disciplinary
levy, the costs associated with prosecuting nonregistered
people working illegally would be reassigned
to a new prosecution fee that is proposed.
It is important to note that under the proposal there
would be no overall increase on the current level of
fees/levies a tradesperson pays. While the disciplinary
levy would decrease, a new fee, equal to the value
of this decrease, would be payable in the form of a
new prosecution fee. The prosecution fee will fund the
Board’s prosecutions of non-registered people.
The Board will also propose to take
the opportunity to reduce the fee for
the practical test of workmanship
for overseas trained people and
introduce new fees for several
categories of exemptions and
employer licences.
The Board will present
its proposal in full next
month when it begins its
consultation process.
Look out for more
information in next
month’s Info Brief.   >:(  >:(

How dare they tell us what they are going to do before we are even consulted on this  :o
The way it reads is this is cut and dryed
What do you guys think?

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/pgdb-new-zealand-plumbing-gasfitting-and-drainlaying-board/30/pgdb-august-info-brief/809/
Unless the moral improves the floggings will continue

Offline integrated

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 10:36:31 PM »
key word in there is "PROPOSED"


are the pgdb's financial records for fiscal yrs made puplic? with detailed itemised expenditure?
I would love to know the "REAL" costs for discipline etc in relation to everything else and where all this money goes...



plumbers/gasfitters/drainlayers doing it legit should not have to foot the bill for people undertaking illegal work!!



there needs to be some form of mechanism to weed out people working without licenses and people undertaking "uner the table" - "cash" work

what procedures are in place now i ask?

nothing that i'm aware of - apart from one dobbing the other in - and i could guarantee most would not/do not feel comfortable with this

I think the merchants have alot to answer for in this regard - they should only be allowed to sell to licensed tradesmen - the only thing they should be allowed to sell to unlicensed joe blow is only things that unlicensed joe blow is allowed to undertake in accordance with the act - ie washers etc - that means no pipe, no fittings etc - nothing that can be used to alter potable supply & sanitary discharge

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 11:10:38 PM »
Hi Integrated
The PGDB's annual report is due out at the end of this month I think - their accounts are in there, but you can request further information under the Official Information Act.  At present the only people paying to prosecute unregistered or unlicensed people are practitioners through the disciplinary levy.  My understanding is that this is not legal and this is the heart of the complaint that was made to the Regulation Review Committee.  The disciplinary levy is only meant to be used to prosecute licensed people.  The PGDB have been misusing some of the displinary levy to prosecute people through the District Courts etc.  The Board, who police the industry, have not been very good at policing their own activities.  They ran to the Minister and said they would be insolvent if Government were to accept the recommendation of the RRC - and so we saw what happened in Parliament - the Minister, while acknowledging that the RRC were right, did not support the recommendation.

Now we have the PGDB playing with semantics and "Proposing" to fleece us just the same but splitting the name of the fee we will be charged. 
The solution to this - do what the Electrical Workers Registration Board does - seek government funding from the gas levy that is charged on everyone's gas bill.  This money is used by the EWRB to fund prosecutions of unlicensed sparkies.  At present not one cent of the gas levy goes to the PGDB - and so practitioners bear the cost entirely of prosecutiions. 

I don't think for one minute all legitimate, licensed practitioners don't want to see the bastards ripping our livelihood out from under our feet proesecuted, hung, drawn and quartered, but why should the cost be 100% borne by us - why shouldn't the public towards protecting themselves, and why can't government direct some of the gas levy to the PGDB to ease our financial burden.   

What are the alternatives for the PGDB - they have already stated that without the displinary levy they would be insolvent - what if consultation overwhelmingly comes out against the two fees proposed - what then?  Is it time to suck this big administrative bag of mistakes into DBH where it can join many other dysfunctional committees and at least rid us of a headache.  DBH is so slow, so dysfunctional, so inept that at least we wouldn't hear from them for a while.  It may even save us some money - no additional rent on the Terrace for flash offices, cutting staff (there are plenty of pen pushers in DBH already), share some economies of scale, save Board member's fees and costs... this list just goes on and on to make this a plus.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline Enn

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 10:09:46 AM »
I think the merchants have alot to answer for in this regard - they should only be allowed to sell to licensed tradesmen - the only thing they should be allowed to sell to unlicensed joe blow is only things that unlicensed joe blow is allowed to undertake in accordance with the act - ie washers etc - that means no pipe, no fittings etc - nothing that can be used to alter potable supply & sanitary discharge.

I agree the no of times i have been in the merchants to see the salesman giving advice on how to trap fixtures and then ask about pipe sizes maximum run of pipe etc not to mention the builders with bundles of copper tube on the roof of their vans.... seems an easy way to sort out the do it yourself or dont get a plumber i can do that for you......

Must be some sanity here rhght.
''Never have so many been fooled by so few''
Plumbing is not a career it is a disease....

Offline robbo

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 04:14:03 PM »
hi guys,Yes, when we have to put our charge out rates up because of increased fees/points training etc, there will be more D.I.Y. cowboys doing our work because Joe public will not be able to afford to employ us. The vicious cycle continues, cheers

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 07:51:01 PM »
"The prosecution fee will fund the
Board’s prosecutions of non-registered people."

So we will still be paying for the board to prociscute people not even connected with the trade...is this legal?

And as well when they prosecute someone and charge them with the legal fees what happnes with the refunded legal fees?

And i still believe that the F,n board should bloody well be funded by the damb public because it is ONLY there to serve the intrest of the damb public! Why do we have to pay for something that was brought about to serve the public. GRRR >:( makes me angry to think about it.


Offline Jaxcat

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 09:03:04 PM »
Thunderhead - I think the Board gets the actual "costs" back in any cases through either the disciplinary system or the District Court, however fines through the District Court will go to the Crown.  I believe the PGDB keeps fines through it's own internal process.  These fines and costs never cover the actual costs though - and are only a % of them.  In fact the unlicensed people get off much more lightly as the fines in the District Court process seem to be much, much smaller than those imposed on licensed people in the Board's internal process.  The fines handed down in the District Court are imposed by judges, the fines to licensed people are obviously decided by the Board's Disciplinary Committee.

This is not a done deal - the PGDB are going to CONSULT us about what we think - we need to be very clear about how we feel about these proposed new fees.  If you look at the last round of consultation re competencies, according to the Board's website there were only 100 submissions received(over 80 from Federation members).  100 out of a possible seven or eight thousand individual practitioners.  We are our own worst enemies through apathy.  I hope like hell more than 100 people decide to put pen to paper on the upcoming consultation around fees.  Those who say nothing can't complain when nothing changes.  It's never too early to start forming your opinions and making notes ready for when they ask.  Perhaps consider asking that the PGDB approach Government for some of the gas levy from the public's gas accounts to go towards prosecuting member of the public and unlicensed people.

And if they ask and then ignore, well there's always another opportunity to go to the RRC.  In the meantime keep collecting those signatures for the petition to Parliament for a Commission of Enquiry into the governance of the industry.

Offline integrated

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Re: PGDB August info brief
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »
"The prosecution fee will fund the
Board’s prosecutions of non-registered people."

So we will still be paying for the board to prociscute people not even connected with the trade...is this legal?

And as well when they prosecute someone and charge them with the legal fees what happnes with the refunded legal fees?

And i still believe that the F,n board should bloody well be funded by the damb public because it is ONLY there to serve the intrest of the damb public! Why do we have to pay for something that was brought about to serve the public. GRRR >:( makes me angry to think about it.





correct-o-mondo



I guess at the end of the day no-one wants to have to pay for unlicensed/illegal PGD'ers, legitly operating PGD'ers shouldnt have to pay for it - the public wont want to pay for it - you can bet ya left one that the government wont stump up, especially the way things are @ the mo

for the above reasons i think if you do the crime you do the time - user pays - if you get caught in illegal operations the crown prosecutes - if found guilty you get fined an apropriate amount to cover court costs - of course this means the crown has to do some work to get a case together

how do they go about sussing out illegal work anyway? i've never heard of anyone getting fined or otherwise for illegal work?



IMHO i'm starting to think maybe the board is better off swallowed up by the DBH, or let it remain for "LICENSING" only - no discipline levy - no cpd's - nothing else



does anyone have any stats on rates of illness, harm or death caused by the industry from say the last 30-50yrs?!? surely there must be something around because the board must of used something to justify all these changes to presiding ministers?!?


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