A very interesting question - how many times have you seen a member of the public go into a plumbers merchants and receive not only a special price off them for plumbing gear, but advice on how to do the job as well?  Perhaps even special tools are loaned to the non plumber/gasfitter or drainlayer.   It isn't just the big box stores that do this - our own merchants who supposedly rely on plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers for their bread and butter work are sometimes working against us.  Have a look at these examples:
1.  A builder who can purchase a gas appliance cheaper than a gasfitter
2.  Green pipe welder loaned to a member of the public so they can do their own job
3.  A guy who puts together fish tanks can purchase small bits and pieces cheaper than a plumber spending substantial amounts at a merchant, all because he "knew someone"
4.  Merchants who give advice to members of the public as to how to do a plumbing job

Are these guys culpable if the non plumber does a plumbing job and cocks it up?  No.  Should they be - I think so.  Wouldn't it be great if we got to the stage where at least the two big merchants asked to see the card of the people purchasing the gear.  Perhaps as shareholders or customers this is something we could ask our merchants to do.  What do you think?


Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/rant-or-rave/5/plumbing-merchants-are-they-working-for-or-against-the-industry/1698/

I would think that the merchants first priority would be to sell product. I suggested to my supplier that they develop some protocol for how to deal with giving advice and making people aware that they may invalidate their insurance if the work was not done by a licenced person. i dont know if anything has come from this yet.


It seems that it is not illegal to sell the components to do sanitary plumbing and drainage or gas fitting just to do it.
I have seen signs in Mico's a few years ago that advised the public that most jobs needed to be done by a licenced plumber, they were small and unobtrusive.

Who's going to pay for this policing? Eeeek!

There is a lot  i could say but its late i will leave it at that for now.

Currently, shops that sell guns are required to sigh licenses. Why can this principle not be applied to plumbing merchants? There would be no cost for administration, just the odd audit to ensure compliance

I would go one further Jaxcat, today I bought a e20 waste disposal from micos for $245.00 and then went to mitre 10 mega and the same model was $185.00 retail !!!

 I am all for what waterware are doing and we as the trade get the opportunity to buy directly from the manufacturers and importers and cut out micos, zips, pw etc.

 If they intended to sell product to joe blogs at our costings then we will clearly want to move to suppliers who allow us to gain our margins. simple aye

Yeah i see this all the time. public rolling in for some water pipe fittings and pipe, shower mixing valves, the lot. its frustrating to see but i cant see it changing anytime soon. they usually score some discount too. some of them arent even aware of what thread tape is and have to walked through the job step by step by counter staff.

it makes a mockery of the board and the practicing license system. ive only been in the trade for 12 years but never have i seen so much diy, and never has it been so easy for people to have access to plumbing products as it is now thanks to mitre 10 mega.


I am very cautious when looking at work to quote when homeowners/builders ask too many questions as it usually means they are using me for free information under the guise of getting me out to 'quote' the job for them when in reality they have no intention of using me or anyone else and want to do the work themselves.

A pretty common occurance here in good old nz. I really dont know why the board bothers.

My biggest fear is one day mitre10 will own the industry product wise for retail sales to the public because of their buying power and will then branch out into the installation market and hire staff that drive mitre10 mega plumbing vans and literally take the entire industry away...fireplace installs, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, spouting etc... you never know.....

1.  If you have an account at a particular merchant and you see them walking a member of the public through how to do a plumbing job, note the date, the time and the merchant and branch - and if possible a description of the staff member doing it and send it to the Federation.  I have spoken to their executive and they will go straight to the head office of the merchant with the particular details.
2.  Both Mico and Plumbing World say they definitely do not condone this sort of behaviour, and both of these merchants purport to be for the trade - in fact they say the trade are their absolute priority. 
3.  If you see someone doing this at a big box store, then likewise report it to the Federation and let them write to the store concerned pointing out the illegality.

I saw M10 take done a "Stan" demonstration video of installing a vanity because plumbers got on the website and commented on the illegality of it all.

Do it - take action - and let's see what comes of it.

That sounds very intriguing Wal - tell us more!!!  Sounds like you have something good up your sleeve.  If you have any sort of plan that means plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers might get a good deal - I can't wait to hear it.  The big merchants have shown no consideration to the Federation (although I do recall Mico being co-operative when the Federation first started by allowing people to sign up for membership on forms in their branches) - so I'm assuming its not something to do with them.

How long till this announcement?

Yeah things need to change. Regulations around work cant stay on the fence. its either regulated 100% or as close to or not at all. bunnings is another one who sells virtually everything plumbing related you can think of with absolutely no regard for "The Act". Temp valves, prv's, you name it and they have it and by god to they sell it. Unfortunately for the board "The Act" is a bloody joke. because its water people think its ok to have a go.

It'd be like selling legal high's at a retail store but saying you cant take it home and smoke it, whern of course the retailer and the customer both know that thats exactly whats going to happen....they ram all this stuff in customers faces
which encourages them to do some diy. there are diy banners everywhere and diy handyman magazines etc.

My opinion is that places like these are ruining the trade. They are selling products that are illegal to install unless by a trades person and the main target market is of course....the public. They dont tell the public that its illegal though and everyone carries on like its all good. I would say at a guess that plumbers were busier before all of these stores came along....

So what I am going to ask the board is how do you combat this problem? Being licensed is a joke. I saw a painter buying wastepipe and bute pipe today...everyday I see something. Forget the targeting of those already in the trade, target the retail outlets flicking off thousands of fittings a day to people that are not qualified or licensed to be installing them. Theres the real non compliance of the act and it happens 7days a week!

If the board do anything other than tackling this problem they are just pissing in the sea......waste of time doing anything else like regulating and licensing 7000 trades people when who knows how many other new zealanders or ppl living in nz breach the act (250,000 people a year do something trade related they are not qualified or competent to be doing?) Sounds like a feasible number, maybe a bit low?


There is no way a guy will walk out of a big box store with an arm full of waste pipe bends, traps, plug&wastes and 40mm pvc pipe over his shoulder with a f**kin diy magazine in his back pocket, go home and call a plumber. Hell no, hes going to DIY.

We get yanked over the coals on a regular basis about this and that by the board about cpd and licensing and fees and blah blah
but joe public can put a relief valve on a low pressure cylinder with a wetback fitted on his own house for more pressure and shes all good mate! (another thing ive seen recently and corrected whilst installing a new log burner)

My opinion is that products like these should be restricted sales to trades people only? And only sold at merchants. More and more people especially in the provinces have less and less money to do things these days further encouraging DIY and the big box stores are all to happy to take their money, give some half ass advice and sell a roll of thread seal tape along the way. Its a vicious cycle.

I will be writing to the board about this