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Author Topic: Low pressure Weback Solar question  (Read 12242 times)

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Offline nimble

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Low pressure Weback Solar question
« on: March 21, 2011, 09:39:08 AM »
Hi there

We have built a roofspace low pressure wetback/ solar capable HWC system. As i understand the wetback 1/2 inch pipe needs to be all copper, a plumber doing some other work on the house mentioned all other feeds to and from the tank should have 1.5 m of copper pipe before it switches to butaline. Could someone please confirm the distance and which feeds are required to be all/part copper?

I also wondered if anyone new wether a temperature control system would be required for compliance and how much a basic how water automated temperature mixer system will cost to install??

Many thanks forany advice or assistance

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/solar-heating-and-heat-pumps/9/low-pressure-weback-solar-question/605/

Offline Plumber

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 11:47:30 AM »
Hi nimble,

Your plumber is correct. This is to protect your plastic pipe should the water ever exceed acceptable temperatures. Usually the 1.5 meters of copper go from the outlet of the HWC to tempering valve and after the tempering the water should be at 55deg anyway.

Also to note is that you need a special tempering valve designed for those temperatures, wetback being an uncontrolled heatsource.

I noticed you said your wetback is 1/2 inch. Wetback should be min. 25mm pipe to allow for thermosiphon activity to take place.

I'm not sure I understand your question about automated temperature, can you please elaborate on this?

Plumber
Please note that the advice I am giving is only my opinion and not necessarily a fact.  Please refer to our terms and conditions.

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 12:40:17 PM »
Hi there , thanks for your reply. Your right I dont completely understand this.
Basically i bought a custom made tank and have mounted it on a slope hoizontally in my ceiling space.
It is a low pressure system and has inlets and outlets for both solar and wetback. Its located about 3m from and above my fireplace.

I'm assuming i will need some sort of device to moderate the temperature of my hot water as potentially the water in my tank could boil!!

The custom made tank was designed fro wetback so the fitting size should be 25mm i will check. Would the coldwater inlet pipe need to be copper for the 1.5m at the tank end or is it just the wetback ,solar and outlet that need to be copper?

Thank you very much for your help.


Offline Thunderhead

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 06:30:10 PM »
im not sure i read you right here?...Basically i bought a custom made tank and have mounted it on a slope hoizontally in my ceiling space.

I would have thought that you must mount the tank vertical with the outlet/vent being the highest point so if the water does boil the steam can make its way up and out the open vent?...mounting the tank hoizontally on a slope would not put the vent in the uppermost position allowing steam to collect in the tank?...i just thought the vent line must be the highest point in the tank to allow steam to escape stopping any air locks and the such...

Offline Plumber

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 07:38:28 PM »
Just adding onto Thunderheads quote, was the tank designed to be installed Horizontally?, I agree this doesn't sound right. No there isn't a requirement to install copper on the inlet but its good practice. Control for wetback? hmm No... (unless you are using a pump) If your wetback is working via therosiphon then it cant be controlled. That's why wetbacks are sized correctly depending on the size of the HWC. So exactly that does not happen. Make sure its open vented and no tempering valve is blocking the passage, refer to NZ standard AS/NZS 3500.4:2003 for correct installation methods. The design and installation can change depending on if you are heating directly or via a heat exchanger.

Just a thought in regards to your 15mm connections. Are you sure that's not the defuser for the solar  ::)?

Hope this helps

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 08:52:14 PM »
Thank you all so much....obviously i am a little out of my depth here and a little worried  >:(............... hopefully i haven taken the correct advice!!!! I plan to have the system connected by a plumber but unfortunately the budget is tight so I have tried to save money by mounting the tank myself

Yes the tank is custom made for a horizontal installation and is installed at about 25 deg slope with the outlet at the highest point where the stand pipe goes out onto the roof.

The HWC is 270L ...how do i calculate the correct ouput size of the wetback???????

By controlling the temperature i mean the water coming from my taps will potentially be very hot, i assumed this temperature would need to be moderated for safety.

I was also advised by someone to run 3/4 inch pipe all the way from the outlet junction directly across to the shower curving it slowly and avoiding any 90 deg bends to maximise pressure. Would this approach be compliant?????

Thanks to you all again

Offline robbo

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 09:22:30 PM »
hi, i`m reluctent to chip in here but if i was you i would contract a reputable plumbing and heating company to carry out the work that way they would take full responsibility and you would have a gaurantee, reading your posts you could well finish up with a BOMB, i think that you are also refering to a tempering valve to control the water temp at the faucets and showers which would be mandatory,have you applied for a council permit you will probably need one. Just remember if you do anything yourself that go`s wrong your insurance co will not cover it and the P.G.D.board may procecute you. Just friendly advice,good luck. 

Offline Plumber

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 09:50:34 PM »
I Agree with Robbo 100% on this one. To many ??? Would strongly recommend getting someone that is qualified and has done this before to look at it.
In regards to the temperature Robbo is right you require a tempering valve, as stated in my post before it needs to be one designed for this purpose to cope with the high temperature so not a standard tempering valve.

Let us know how you get on.

Plumber

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 11:45:04 PM »
Cheers for the heads up....yes i have council permission and Yes i definitely will have The HWC connection, Wetback and solar installed by a plumber.

My father is an engineer and is helping me with stuff,  our builder  built the load bearing beams for the cylinder. The guy who organised the HWC and solar equipment  helped with the design for connections on the custom cylinder and placement . So i am quite confident we are heading along the right path.
I have not bought the wood burner yet and i'm aware i will need to size the wetback output accordingly
We have relocated a house in the Kiapara district and  I have double and triple checked with the council that they are only wanting to inspect and  need certification for the new HWC connection,new fire, wetback + fitting the new shower mixer (we are moving the shower). All the rest of my plumbing is apparently being treated as existing.   The reality is it's very old and tired and i want to replace lot's of it, we have done lot's of basic butalyne hot and cold water plumbing under our previous house but never run pipes from the roofspace down.  Is it Feasable to do this ourselves??

Any tips for running pipes inside walls??

Many Thanks

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 11:48:59 PM »
BTW the cylinder is an open circuit system i  with no coils.

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 05:51:32 PM »
help and advice can only go so far mate before we have to charge you for our knowledge...i understand you wanting to do things on the cheep not paying the correctly qualified people to do the job correctly...but for a system that will be in place for the next 15years or so the expense you pay now...you will recoup in the future by having a correctly installed system with the correct warrintys and insurance in place...what you fail to see is that hot water storage systems can be deadly if not installed correctly...are you prapared to risk you and your familys health and safety for a coupple of grand?


watch these clips showing examples of what can and will happen in a worst case example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEHfihiNz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu3FwgIHsQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_p23dce8U&feature=related

Im not trying to scare you just trying to say...no offense intended but please get a plumber to install this doubble system for your own safety.

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 07:12:03 PM »
Huh i have to have it installed by a qualified person to get compliance?? I just explained that above??
As far as i know as long as i have the compulsary bits installed by a professional and get compliance from my council i will b insurable why would i not get insurance??

Offline nimble

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 07:14:51 PM »
In my experience not all trades people are as knowledgeable or professional as they make out. I am here trying to get the best advice to ensure who ever  i do employ does things the best way possible. It sure seems like your trying to scare me....why?

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 07:44:44 PM »
not at all sir im not trying to scare you at all just ramming home the need for profesionals to do your work!...and there is a million and one ways to skin the same cat so what we sugguest to you may not be the way another plumber would do the job as there are many unforseen circumstanes at play here and only when the plumber comes to actually see the job can they give you dinifinative answers to your questions....And if your unhappy and believe that the work done by the plumber does not adhere to standards then you have the notirous PGDB at your disposal...And also the choice is in your hands so getting a few quotes isnt going to hurt then you can obvisouley choose the one who seems most suited to the job because there are some very experienced tradesmen out there...easy as pie mate and for your wood burrner you should do some home work and just ring some of the manfactures of these wet back systems and they should be able to put you right i guess.

Offline Thunderhead

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Re: Low pressure Weback Solar question
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 07:50:40 PM »
but there cool vids anyways...but truley mate im only conserned for your own safety not out to scare ya just worried.


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